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Which Lua Engine Should Be Built By Default?

Poll: Which Lua Engine Should Be Built By Default? (16 member(s) have cast votes)

Which Lua engine should be built by default?

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#1 User is offline   dfighter 

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  Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:15 AM

Hi there!
I have to say that I don't really like the new Lua bridge, for a very simple reason. It is bound to the C++ class interfaces. This means that when we change the C++ classes and their methods ( which happens all the time, for a very good reason ), the Lua scripts need to be rewritten. Even with the new supposedly cool features this is a huge drawback and requires people to again and again relearn to do the same thing.
Also many people say that it is too much "like C++" for them and then they might as well learn C++ instead of Lua.
So I had the idea to make the old Lua engine the default one, however I don't want to act on this without you the community's opinion.
So tell me! Which Lua engine would you like to be the default?

Please note that this doesn't mean we'd remove either engines. They are both here to stay.

I will leave this topic open for the next 2 weeks, so everyone gets a chance to vote and have their say!

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#2 User is offline   salamanda 

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:08 AM

The old Lua engine has some weird issues that you encounter when you run the server publicly. I'm currently running ArcEmu with a active population of ~8-14, and it crashes every few hours. Every single crash dump I open, is because of the same bad pointers I'm getting within the Lua engine. =/ (I have reported this, but both Hypersniper and Paroxysm is unable to reproduce the bug). Pure guess work, but I think it's Lua scripts being called from the NPC On_Spawn event which are triggered when you are on a flight path (load while your on it). At least, that seems to be when it most often happens.

The new LuaBridge is nice, I like being able to choose the maps on which the script to be loaded, and being able to use full AI_Interface and such, it's just nice. However, I have encountered lots of stability issues with this as well (though I haven't tried it in a while).

Tbh, I think you should go with whatever works for the devs rather than the community. If the new engine is better, then people should learn to adapt. Change is, on the most part, good even if people don't like it.

Personally I would say the old Lua engine for the selfish reason of already being familiar with it.

Also:

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[#103148] You do not have permission to vote in this poll.

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#3 User is offline   sonarf 

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:08 AM

Shame you didnt look at these engines 400 revs ago maybe bridge would have never been implemented :(

Thx for fixing gossips in the Lua Engine.

Lua Engine RULES yeah :)
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#4 User is offline   dfighter 

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:40 AM

View Postsalamanda, on 29 July 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

The old Lua engine has some weird issues that you encounter when you run the server publicly. I'm currently running ArcEmu with a active population of ~8-14, and it crashes every few hours. Every single crash dump I open, is because of the same bad pointers I'm getting within the Lua engine. =/ (I have reported this, but both Hypersniper and Paroxysm is unable to reproduce the bug). Pure guess work, but I think it's Lua scripts being called from the NPC On_Spawn event which are triggered when you are on a flight path (load while your on it). At least, that seems to be when it most often happens.

The new LuaBridge is nice, I like being able to choose the maps on which the script to be loaded, and being able to use full AI_Interface and such, it's just nice. However, I have encountered lots of stability issues with this as well (though I haven't tried it in a while).

Tbh, I think you should go with whatever works for the devs rather than the community. If the new engine is better, then people should learn to adapt. Change is, on the most part, good even if people don't like it.

Personally I would say the old Lua engine for the selfish reason of already being familiar with it.

I don't really like Lua so the best option for me would be the option that removes both of the engines, but since many people depend on it, it's not gonna happen.
The second best option for me is the old engine since it's easier to maintain from the compatibility point of view.
If you need features from the AI Interface for the old engine you can just ask and eventually we can add it ( if it makes sense ofc ).
Also the per map engine feature can be probably ported into the old engine as well ( all it takes is time ).
So I'd vote for the old engine ( but I can't since it's my own poll :( )

As for your inability to vote, I don't know what's wrong with it, but I will take a look.

Oh yea, your crashes, you should consult with Jackpoz regarding those, he is our local Scruffy clone.
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View Postsonarf, on 29 July 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

Shame you didnt look at these engines 400 revs ago maybe bridge would have never been implemented :)

Thx for fixing gossips in the Lua Engine.

Lua Engine RULES yeah :)

While Parox was here I had to consult with him, I advised him many times, I asked him to do or not do things, he didn't really listen.
Now that he is gone I can do w/e I want without having to consult anyone, and yet I decided to consult with the users of the project, without anyone pushing me to.
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#5 User is offline   iEzri 

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 09:02 AM

omg what a choice... old vs. new...

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/me hides
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#6 User is offline   jackpoz 

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 03:42 PM

View Postsalamanda, on 29 July 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

I think it's Lua scripts being called from the NPC On_Spawn event which are triggered when you are on a flight path (load while your on it).

Could you post it as ticket on our tracker http://sourceforge.n...pps/trac/arcemu ? Please include a link to your Lua scripts so I can try to reproduce the issue.
There are some "dangerous" things that Lua scripts shouldn't do, like despawn a creature in the On_Spawn event, maybe it's that case.
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#7 User is offline   salamanda 

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:44 PM

View Postjackpoz, on 29 July 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

Could you post it as ticket on our tracker http://sourceforge.n...pps/trac/arcemu ? Please include a link to your Lua scripts so I can try to reproduce the issue.
There are some "dangerous" things that Lua scripts shouldn't do, like despawn a creature in the On_Spawn event, maybe it's that case.


I don't think it's really feasible to debug, I mean, I only recently came to the conclusion that it was caused by flight paths.

When I'm on a long flight path, and I fly past a area that uses an on spawn event from a creature, the server crashes. These are certain points. (This is pure speculation - I have no evidence to prove this other than the fact it has crashed in the same point on the flight paths multiple times).

I submitted it as a ticket when I didn't have a clue what was causing it here: http://sourceforge.n...cemu/ticket/129

In that example you can see the most recently called function is GetClosestPlayer(), but it has crashed with most functions, usually GetClosestPlayer/Teleport.

I'm interested in this commit: http://arcemu.svn.so...n&revision=4400 As this modifies how the stacks work. I am in the progress of updating all my scripts to the new Gossip format, but this is going to take a while as I have 176 scripts currently (been developing my project since patch 3.0.3 :().

Thanks for taking a look, I mean these are the scripts if you want to take a look, but it's not very easy to debug when there are so many scripts: http://subversion.as...0World/scripts/

Main Flight path involved scripts:
http://subversion.as...lightSystem.lua
http://subversion.as...lightMaster.lua

Mostly on spawn, the only things I call are variable declarations and visuals. Really not sure why these crashes happen, pretty sure it's the flight paths.

The scripting on most of these scripts are pretty poor (because I didn't have a clue what I was doing ~1.5 years ago) but it's been a learning experience and the newer scripts are much better, scripted very well. Even though the old scripts are poorly coded, they should still work fine. I've gone through them all to check for things that could cause crashes.

Ah well, thanks for having a look as I said. I doubt you can do much with the information I provided.
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#8 User is offline   Loken 

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:49 PM

I will vote for Luabridge... even if know how this will end... :(
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#9 User is offline   jackpoz 

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 04:34 AM

View Postsalamanda, on 29 July 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

...


Take a look at my reply in that ticket. With the callframes of arcemu-world.exe it will be much more clear why it crashes.
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#10 User is offline   salamanda 

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:31 AM

View Postjackpoz, on 30 July 2011 - 04:34 AM, said:

Take a look at my reply in that ticket. With the callframes of arcemu-world.exe it will be much more clear why it crashes.


Brilliant, you managed to find the problem. :( I'm assuming you don't need the callframes any more.

edit: Just saw your new reply.
edit2: added more detailed crash dump details to the ticket
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#11 User is offline   dfighter 

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 05:51 PM

View Postsalamanda, on 30 July 2011 - 10:31 AM, said:

Brilliant, you managed to find the problem. :) I'm assuming you don't need the callframes any more.

edit: Just saw your new reply.
edit2: added more detailed crash dump details to the ticket

Yes he did, and it's quite a biggie actually, but we've been brainstorming about it for some days now, so soon it might get fixed ;)
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#12 User is offline   salamanda 

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 06:03 PM

View Postdfighter, on 01 August 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

Yes he did, and it's quite a biggie actually, but we've been brainstorming about it for some days now, so soon it might get fixed ;)


Brilliant. Can't really describe how happy I am. :)
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#13 User is offline   sanctum32 

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:13 PM

hm, and when people will take development of c++ scripts?..
main reasons to take:
* just all scripts are in own category libraly
* needs less updating on structure changes (new gossip system for example)
* easy to order in class
* c++ scripts development maybe will improve c++ knowledge


just my opinion: leave things, which has better support and features. I basically i don't like, when here are created alternative, same, more featured functions, but old functions still exists (just dublicate code), for example, gossip systems ;) i will post lua engine update patch soonish (had work with private cms).

this as base is learning project...
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#14 User is offline   jackpoz 

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:31 AM

View Postsalamanda, on 01 August 2011 - 06:03 PM, said:

Brilliant. Can't really describe how happy I am. :o

please continue the conversation about the Lua crashes at http://arcemu.org/fo...showtopic=25274 .
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#15 User is offline   dfighter 

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:45 PM

It also would be nice if people who vote, posted some words about why they prefer the one they vote for.
Since it might affect future directions of the project...
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#16 User is offline   Shadoxfix 

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 05:25 PM

I voted for the old lua engine.
But that is because I'm used to it and a lot of scripts that are already made have the old lua engine as a base.
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#17 User is offline   dfighter 

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 02:34 AM

So the two weeks have passed.
The result is 10 for the old engine, 5 for the Lua bridge.
Therefore we will set the old engine as default soon!
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